Lennon, Thompson and Stokes join The Roll of ‘Honour’?
November 16, 2011 30 Comments
As I write this I’m not sure why I am not instead reading about it in a Scottish newspaper. The Sun newspaper have been sniffing around this story for over a week now, including speaking to NBM for a comment, but don’t seem to want to commit so, in a week which has shown some incredible double standards, we’ll now have a look at the most glaring hypocrisy of all.
Earlier this month Peter Lawwell, the Celtic Chief Executive, issued the following statement about IRA singing by the Celtic support:
“Chants glorifying the Provisional IRA are totally unacceptable.
One, it is wrong, and it is an embarrassment to the club and embarrassment to the majority of supporters.
We have dealt with it at Celtic Park and we will do all we can to make sure it doesn’t happen home or away.”
A very reasonable statement on the surface, aside from the glaring inaccuracy that this chanting has been dealt with at Celtic Park. I am well aware that many Celtic supporters find IRA chanting unacceptable. However Celtic, as a club, have been pandering to the lowest common denominator in their support for some time now. They have allowed the Green Brigade in particular to do, sing, chant and display whatever they like. This group have even been responsible for attacks on stewards, police and ball boys without any sanction from the club (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=IiRcMn_tgFk) . This has led to a perception amongst a sizeable group of Celtic fans that they are untouchable and the IRA and sectarian chants have increased both home and away. Make no mistake, the Green Brigade may have started the ball rolling but this type of chanting is now widespread at Celtic Park as well as when Celtic visit other grounds.
You will recall that earlier in the week I wrote about Anthony Stokes’ support on Twitter for a band who like to sings songs in praise of PIRA terrorists – The Players Brigade, http://chrisgraham76.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/regan-stokes-and-media-double-standards/ and the media double standard in not reporting it, http://chrisgraham76.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/singin-im-no-a-billy-hes-a-tim .
This band were formed and operate from a pub called the Player’s Lounge which is owned and run by Anthony’s father and in which Anthony has a share (as confirmed by his father on RTE on the 14th March 2011). There are also rumours on Celtic forums that one of the band members, Mick Byrne, is Anthony’s biological brother (http://www.board67.com/celtic-related/14946-stokes-family-shocker.html). One of the band’s favourites is a song called Roll of Honour, which congratulates the IRA terrorists who bombed innocent civilians during their campaign of terror.
I won’t show any more of their offensive songs here but follow this link and you will see more videos of them on YouTube, celebrating terrorism and full of anti British sentiment (dare I say racism). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOVoFy-7dqM&feature=related
It would seem that whilst Celtic are happy to tell the media that they condemn IRA chants and sectarian songs, they don’t actually want to have to do anything about it. This perception is further strengthened by some extraordinary pictures sent to me by regular readers of this blog, Ross and @be1873. The pictures below were posted on the Players Brigade Facebook site but have since been removed.
These pictures show that not only is Anthony Stokes joining in with the singing but also that Neil Lennon, the Celtic manager has posed for photos with the lead singer and guitarist of the band and that Alan Thompson, the Celtic assistant manager also took to the stage for a sing song. It’s clear that not everybody at Celtic Park shares Peter Lawwell’s embarrassment of links with the IRA.
Now I think it needs to be pointed out that nobody is suggesting that Stokes, Lennon or Thompson have done anything illegal. No matter how distasteful people find the songs that this band sing they are not currently illegal as far as I am aware. Whether they should be is another matter. However, it is massively hypocritical of Celtic to issue statements condemning their fans for singing these songs when the players and management at the club are happy to pose for photos, promote albums and join in a sing song with a band who sing precisely the type of songs that Celtic claim to be embarrassed by.
Furthermore it is quite clear that the Celtic fans representatives do not share the club’s view that IRA songs are unacceptable. Yesterday, Joe O’Rourke, the head of the official Celtic Supporters Association published an extraordinary piece which confirms not only that his club’s fans have indeed been singing IRA songs but also that they should be perfectly entitled to do so. Excuse the preponderance of semi colons if you bother to read his rant – Joe is a massive fan of them (http://www.thecsa.co.uk/showthread.php?t=496) .
Joe O’Rourke’s view, that everybody is out to get Celtic and that they should be allowed to sing sectarian and IRA songs unfettered, is shared by Jeanette Findlay – the head of the Celtic Supporter’s Trust. This, from the recent game with Rennes is the sort of thing Jeannette finds acceptable. Chants of “Ooh Ah Up the Ra” by a huge number of the Celtic support. Not exactly a small minority eh? The incredible thing being that they are so proud of it they film themselves and post it on the internet.
Ms Findlay also stated in Parliament that she found the use of the word “hun” entirely acceptable. So she enjoys a bit of a sectarianism as well as some terrorist supporting. Lovely woman.
A picture therefore emerges of a conflict between the media portrayal of Celtic and what the club actually practices. Their CEO says the club deplores IRA chants and songs but some of the management and players clearly fraternise with band who sing them and their fans reps demand the right of Celtic fans to keep singing them. The media have the same information that everyone else has. All this stuff is available on the internet so why are they not writing about it? Why publish a piece on Frank McAvennie singing with a PIRA band (http://143.252.148.202/scotsol/homepage/news/3739347/Boozy-Maccas-IRA-song-shame.html) but ignore it when current Celtic players and management are involved? Why publicise a Peter Lawwell statement rejecting the IRA without reporting that Celtic fan reps are demanding that IRA songs should be allowed? Your guess is as good as mine but the stench of double standards is again overpowering.
If Celtic actually want to do something about this they might want to start by getting their players and management to stop fraternising with IRA bands and perhaps replace their official fan representatives with people who don’t think that singing about the IRA is to be applauded and is the best way to be proud of your Irish roots. Until then, the proclamations made by their CEO, which the media lap up without so much as a question, will be seen by everyone else for the hollow statements they actually are.
About Chris Graham
Have a look at this. Michael Kelly on Scotland Today. Jeanette Findlay refused to take part apparently.
Comments ?
Yeah I watched it last night. I don’t agree with Kelly that IRA songs are political. I don’t see how it stands up to scrutiny that a group who murdered Protestants are political? Surely the songs should be about Sinn Fein in that case? He seemed all over the place to me and he wasn’t even under particular pressure to answer tricky questions.
all I.R.A. songs are sectarian in fact i would go further i would say treasonous they aresinging about glorified killings of innocent people and british troops what has that got to do with celtic football club or is it a question that is very close to the mark
Another elegant, intelligent and well writen blog. I don’t know why mainstream media aren’t shouting aobut this! I have never thought that there could be wholesale media bias towards Celtic and their supporters but my mind is changed.
Keep up the good work.
I remember Donal Finlay QC having to leave the board due to something similar ona drunken night out.
My point being is at least we as Rangers supporters have stood up an said “ok lets get this together and stamp it out”.
They have neither the will nor the mentallity to proceed down this route at present.
Until they accept there is a disease among them they will not commit to a cure. Surely stokes, lennon & thompsons position now is untenable.
Political songs are banned by UEFA as part of the entry for clubs entering european competitions….fact, so Celtic cannot hide behind this in Europe.
Article 11.2 of UEFA’s disciplinary regulations allows for disciplinary measures to be taken against clubs if there are instances of “inappropriate behaviour on the part of their supporters”.
Specifically, the rule says action can be taken in the event of “the use of gestures, words, objects or any other means to transmit any message that is not fit for a sports event, in particular if it is of a political, offensive or provocative nature.”
No hiding place this time for Celtic!
Can you imagine Ally McCoist, Kyle Lafferty and Steve Davis being filmed singing UVF songs and the media ignoring it? Neither can I. Can someone tell why Donald Findlay was hounded to the brink of suicide by the media, yet this lot are ignored?
They’d be like Jack Russell’s after you skin a rabbit!
You can just dozens of cameras and journalists all pushing microphones in Whyte’s face and yelling out “can you comment on…” And “how can Rangers say this and employ…”
Another great piece and I have to say Chris’s blogs along with Leggat’s blog are replacing newspapers for me – getting more accurate news and saving cash too! All we Rangers fans need now is someone blogging about financial matters and we’ll be well served!
Well done Chris.
Great Read Chris thanks for the name check too.
I have a crystal ball and I believe the Mhedia will go with this story or I should say part of it.
STOKES REAL BROTHER IN IRA BAND SHOCKER
This will be the Sunday Mails Headline this weekend to follow up that cutting edge vangaurd bit of journalism last sunday Their Jeremey Kyle styled expose on stokes real mother lying saying that Stokes is in emotional turmoil when he tweeted that he new all his life.
They will convientantly leave out all major points like The Stokes tweets about the PIRA band and how he couldnt care less when people showed their anger at his Stupid illthought tweets.
He and the rest of the Celtic Staff should really be setting a better example.
How are they going to stamp out this major IRA problem with their fans when they are promoting it.
Flys in the face of Celtic powerbrokers and proves that Lennon’s appointment was to appeal to the underclasses that are part of the celtic support
Excellent article Chris, would love to see the editors / sub editors responsible for repressing this highly topical news named and shamed
Chris, I hope you have made this all available to those concerned with sectarian issues here in Scotland, Roseanna Cunningham et al, as well as those at UEFA who are currently investigating the actions of this vile, vile nest of vipers.
The thing that really gets on my goat is that we all know what the press reaction would be if Rangers players or officials were present at a UVF band event, even more so if they got up on stage and joined in.
For some reason the press in Scotland are turning a blind eye to this. Whether that’s becuase they secretly condone this behaviour or they are terrified to speak out (in fear of having their windows put in or are even physically attacked) I really don’t know.
It is a disgrace this is being ignored in the Scottish media.
Excellent, well thought out Post, have you sent this to FARE, Oh I forgot they are changing their name to Only FARE if you are not Rangers
Support for the IRA is endemic within the club from root and branch to the top level. Senior officials and coaching staff, certain players and the vast majority of their support all are guilty…. this is not a small minority or a minor local issue as the club’s spokespersons and apologists(official and unofficial) ,are trying to hoodwink the public and UEFA.
It is public knowledge.
I hear Phil Mac is getting jealous at being outdone in the ‘obsessed blogger’ stakes
He needn’t be. I promise not to make any idiotic predictions. Certainly not a weekly basis, based only on the voices in my head.
When you are up against a country who’s entire state religion is based on bigotry, and sectarianism what chance do you have.!
I challenge you to give me one line in any of the songs sung at Celtic Park that would bee deemed sectarian, and explain why.!
I enjoy this line “why can a Catholic not be the Monarch?”. Well let’s see. The monarch is head of the Church of England. Why can a Protestant not be Pope? It’s just as sensible a question.
As for the song, let’s take an easy one “Go home ya huns, go home ya huns, go home ya huns, go home”. Hun is a derogatory term for a Protestant used by Celtic fans on a regular basis. It is sung not only at Rangers fans but also Motherwell, Kilmarnock, Hearts etc. And we know that you can’t sing songs telling people to “go home” don’t we?
Also let me make something clear to you since I suspect your point is that IRA songs are ‘political’ and not sectarian. The IRA murdered hundreds of Protestants simply because of their religion. http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-the-ira-campaign-in-cork-against-protestants-and-nonrepublicans-was-on-a-truly-vast-scale-2417300.html That is sectarian. Sinn Fein are a political party. The IRA are not. I know Celtic fans are mobilising to push the point that the IRA are political. They aren’t. You sound like idiots and only idiots are agreeing with you.
My feelings on the monarchy are mixed.
As long as they keep the costs down, keep out of Politics and remain Head of the Church of England then they get my reluctant support. The second they allow a Roman Catholic (or any other religion) to be Monarch is the second my support vanishes.
That might appear bigoted but my view is that if I was staying in a foreign country (say Spain for example) I would have no gripes to the Monarch being Catholic.
A monarch if he or she is to be viable as the representation of a nation should be representative of the majority and as such the main religion. For me this ‘why can’t a RC be King or Queen’ is just another one of those silly questions that are put out as more smoke from IRA supporters! These days you could easily ask ‘why can’t a Protestant non Celtic supporter be Lord Provost in Glasgow’…
But then all this gets away from the question of the blog, which is generally the rationale behind it!
You’ve got to love Kevin Myers – he’s everything your average Celtic fan would love to be: Irish and clever. Inconveniently for Celtic fans though, he sees right through the IRA, past and present.
Stumbled upon this blog by accident.
Excellent read and shared on facebook.
Keep up the good work, sir.
I assume all the sensible comments which have been posted opposing your ill thought out views above with regards to who or what the IRA were and stood for, with regards to there being such a thing as an “IRA Band” (GSUS) or that Neil Lennon, Anthony Stokes, or Alan Thomson should be hounded for attending such a function (while adding in illicit details that one of the band members might be Stokes’ brother…Very tabloidesque of you), have been removed as you appear to have replied to one of them at least but it can’t be found under the comments section.
I will also assume that you have removed them because this is a Rangers Blog and Celtic fans should stick to their own blogs (even though you’re discussing Celtic). Well if you will, I have a wildly differing view on these things than you do but do agree that the small minorities at both clubs whose wont is to simply wind up the other lot, has to stop so that normal (as in the rest of the world) rivalry can recommence.
Hun is not sectarian, but is used for Rankers fans. The reason that it is sung to the clubs you mentioned (and most of your fans will point out) they are known as “Good Bear Clubs” i.e. sympathetic to the Rangers cause, or Rangers fans without the Bus fare if you will. i.e. it would not be sung to Hibees, Sheep or Arabs fans because they are most certainly not sympathetic to Rangers (at least the fans anyway). Protestant Cletic Fans and Aberdeen fans sing it, no religion involved, only a dislike of Rangers, and we know you don’t like it neither (Hey we’re never going to be on field / terracing muckers are we)
The IRA were not Sectarian nor was / is the political wing as you pointed out, the Sinn Fein. It is well known that the IRA had political aims, i.e. the reunification of Ireland and to drive Britains oppressive forces from the Island. Their aim was never about removing Protestants nor was it about removing the Orange Order or having a Catholic leadership (with many of the republican leadership having been protestant themselves). The republican aims have always been to reunite the people of Ireland despite religion. If you know your history (couldn’t help it) you will see that the Catholic heirarchy sided against the Republican movement many times and vice versa with regards to the IRA against the Catholic church. The fact that many protestants were killed simply reflects that the IRA targetted people opposed to their aims (They killed many Catholics too) and the majority of these people would have come from a Protestant background particularly within Ireland and the social heiracrchy spilt with the Brits having appointed many Protestants as landowners etc. Although many of the IRAs supporters were of a Catholic persuasion, I doubt very much that it affected their decision making when Fighting / killing (depending on your POV).
The flip of this is that I don’t think anyone invloved with the IRA could care that there are Celtic fans singing chants or even songs about them, and if they are truely Irish republican, why are they supporting a British team?? Drive the british from Ireland and then follow them from Larne to Stranraer and up on teh bus to see the Tic?? I don’t think so (if they even like British football, more liely that they are supporting Liverpool or Man U.) Support the republican struggle, buy a British football top…..hhhmmmmmm).
Findlay was sectarian and was stupid enough to be caught…in fact as with your comment re Celtic fans being so stupid as to film themselves singing Pro IRA songs and putting them on Youtube, is the QCs case not very similar??
In any case, I’m sure blogging like this and building up a good following can only do good. Deliver the truth and don’t get drawn into lazy journalism for the sake of filling the blog and you could do alot of good to heal the evilness between the fans as opposed to fanning the flames (i.e don’t become another follow follow or even have your name mentioned with that eejit leggat).
Well done for giving it a go, and as one of your other bloggers mentioned, maybe someone who could deliver a financial perspective into the goings on at your club would help (only a thought).
Thanks for blogging, hope the pettiness leaves as your writing style is on the right tracks.
Mucker
The only posts that don’t get through moderation are either abusive or completely unintelligible. I’ve got no issue with debate. Actually the post you refer to that I answered was double posted and I seem to have removed both by accident. It has now been restored.
Whilst I couldn’t disagree more with your opinions on the IRA – and I’ve cited evidence of them being sectarian – this terrorist group is not the point of the article. The point is to show the double standard in the reporting in Scotland. A double standard which you highlight very well with your example of Donald Findlay QC whose story was all over the paper for weeks. What he did was stupid given the position he held. The same is undoubtedly true of what these Celtic employees did. Celtic are actively trying to distance themselves from IRA chanting and whether you sympathise with the IRA or not, surely you understand that club employees should not be seen to be supporting a band whose songs are 99% in praise of the IRA?
Let’s assume for the moment that Lennon and Thompson didn’t know they were going to a pro IRA band gig. If you push the boundaries of reality I could almost believe that. Perhaps they are not aware that one of their players is closely involved with this band or that he owns a share in the pub in which they were formed. Perhaps they never speak to Anthony Stokes about anything other than football. I don’t believe that but I’ve seen plenty of people trying to argue it. Are you seriously telling me that Stokes doesn’t know what this band stand for? He was in the studio with them when they recorded their latest album. Stokes by any media standard should be having to explain why he is promoting this band. He was advertising their album on Twitter.
“Hun” by any Scottish definition is absolutely sectarian. Fenian didn’t used to mean Catholic – apparently it does now. Words evolve we are told. The police, government and anti sectarian charities all list it as sectarian. The longer Celtic fan’s groups try to argue it isn’t the more stupid they look. Your argument is that singing it to other clubs is because they are somehow “sympathetic” to Rangers? Please don’t try to peddle this nonsense – nobody is buying it. It is sung to those clubs because they are seen as being mainly Protestant supported.
I’m quite sure most football fans wish we could return to a time when people went to football, sung some nasty songs to each other and then went back to friends and family who were Celtic or Rangers fans, gave them a slagging and got on with it. Let’s not forget how that culture was destroyed. It was a concerted campaign by some Celtic supporters and elements of the media to take mock offense at Rangers fans. Well we took our medicine. It’s now time for Celtic fans to take theirs. The irony of the complaints I now hear about this UEFA probe into Celtic are lost to nobody on the blue side of Glasgow.
Hi i Chris why no mention of your team rangers and there fraternising with Loyalist terror groups,since you seem to make out Anthony Stokes is somehow involved with thew IRA which is a ridiculous suggestion,his dad is a well known republican,is that a crime or owning a Irish bar a crime,we have them in Scotland you know,should we ban them as well
Remember your goal keeping hero wearing a black armband in memory of his dead aunt,when in reality everyone knew it was in remberance of Loyalist and terror thug leader Billy “king rat” Wright,I can also find hundreds of youtube videos of your fans singing sectarian songs and in praise of the UVF UDA UFF,in trying to embroil Neil Lennon,Alan Thompson, and Anthony Stokes in some splinter IRA grouping is just farcial.Do remember Chris a prominent loyalist was murdered at Ibrox due to internecine warfare amongs those terror groups,so I would suggest you look closer to home before you throw out aspertions elswere
Cheers
Hear that? That’s the sound of the point of this article going right over your head. I didn’t say Anthony Stokes, his father, Lennon or anyone else was in the IRA or part of the IRA. I said they were photographed with, and in Stokes’ case caught singing with and promoting, a band who sing predominantly IRA songs. Also by giving examples like Goram you also back up the point I was making which is that this should be in the papers. The same way all these other incidents were. So please, no more defence of the IRA or examples of when people linked to Rangers did things similar. We already know about all of them because the media reported it.
No one was murdered at Ibrox by any loyalist group. I don’t know where you are getting that from. Education does not end at Celtic forums Steve. One man was killed on return from Glasgow at the Belfast ferry terminal, many years ago. But don’t be letting the truth be getting in the way now.
Nothing is going over my head at all Chris,I was just pointing out some salient facts YOU had failed to disclose or REPORT not wanting to excuse you of lazy journalism on your part;) We have now had nearly 5 days of celtic bashing bythe media,police and the scottish goverment,I know all rangers fans are salivating at this but heyhoo why miss out on the biggest story ever to hit football in Scotland THE RANGERS TAX CASE were to coin a phrase Scotlands second biggest institution are littterally going to become like the dodo an extinct species,do you not think that is a far bigger story than celtics illicit chanting, come on Chris your club and its fans need to know the truth instead of indulging in he said sang,she said sang stuff you publish
Yes you are right. I should have included a 15 year old (?) story that had already been reported….
Also presumably the fact that Rangers finances are in the news makes the support of an IRA band by Celtic players and management of no consequence.
This is the type of comment I don’t usually publish but since I was quizzed on it earlier – this is about the standard.
For those who slip through the net – well done.
Definition of Sectarianism
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The quality or character of a sectarian; devotion to the interests of a party; excess of partisan or denominational zeal; adherence to a separate church organization.
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It always baffles me how Celtic and their minions always think they are not ‘sectarian’
The actual definition of the word encompasses a lot of their Irish Republican songs just as much as the Rangers support and their songs as shown above.
Trying to deflect by pointing out there is a difference between the Provisional IRA and the IRA, as the IRA are somehow ‘an example of romantic Irish Republicanism’ is just plain ridiculous.
To argue this point in Britain, where the scars of IRA atrocities is recent history, is surely not the most intelligent stance to take for Celtic in a public relations exercise, is it?