Singin’ I’m No a Billy He’s a Tim
November 14, 2011 17 Comments
Just when you thought the media could not be any more hypocritical, we awake this morning to the news that “Tim” has now been declared by The Herald to be a sectarian, anti Catholic term. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/outrage-over-davidson-aide-s-sectarian-tweet-1.1134564?93295 It’s unclear from the piece whether Nil By Mouth (NBM), the anti sectarian charity, are agreeing with his preposterous statement or whether they are just giving another of their general, pointless sound bites. Either way we have now been warned. Expect to see this ramped up from here until nobody in Scotland even remembers that Tim actually just means Celtic fan.
This ‘decision’ by the Herald has some pretty far reaching implications. Firstly the play which shares the title of this article will presumably be cancelled? We can’t have a play with an anti Catholic slogan in it. Secondly I presume the Celtic charity group the “Thai Tims” will be changing their name? Seems odd they would have used such a derogatory term to describe themselves in the first place. Timland, a Celtic merchandise store in the East End will need to be shut down and last, but not least, the Celtic Wiki page will need changed since they state “A Tim is a Celtic supporter”.
The term “Tim” originally comes from a Glasgow gang from Calton in the early 1900s but it’s used by Celtic fans to describe themselves and by others to describe them. It has no negative connotations at all and if someone from NBM actually asserted that it was sectarian they should be sacked. I note the Herald ‘writer’ who put together this piece fails to lay claim to it. I suppose if you are going to write something so obviously full of nonsense then that is perhaps the best course of action.
Interesting also to examine the basis of the story in which this drivel appears. It seems that a Tory aide has been a naughty boy. Not content with posting the suddenly sectarian “Hope the sheep absolutely hump the tims today”, he also posted a line from a UVF song. Whilst this UVF post was indeed particularly stupid, it is interesting to note the difference in his treatment from that dished out to Anthony Stokes.
If you are not aware of what Stokes posted on Twitter – and why would you be since the media refused to report it – you will see the story here. http://chrisgraham76.wordpress.com/2011/11/11/regan-stokes-and-media-double-standards/
Can someone explain to me how it is news that a junior Tory aide, who nobody had heard of until today, posted this stuff on Twitter over 6 months ago but it is not news that Stokes promoted a PIRA band and was in the studio with them as they recorded an album? A band who were formed in a pub in which he has a share. A band who sing songs like this about PIRA terrorists:
Is that not news? Really? The Sun and several other newspapers in Scotland have been made aware of this and yet they won’t print it. Is it cowardice or something else? As you can see below the association with this band is not the only Stokes link to IRA support. He likes to pose in front of flags taken on Real IRA marches.
IRA March - note the flag
Stokes in Players Lounge with IRA march flag
About Chris Graham
How can the Police, Celtic F.C and indeed Neil Lennon put out the message to try and stamp the singing of IRA songs at football matches to their Fans. When one of their top Players set an example like this and gets away with it with impunity.
Compare and contrast it with this story of the incident that happened in (big surprise) the Stokes run Slop house the Players lounge
http://143.252.148.202/scotsol/homepage/news/3739347/Boozy-Maccas-IRA-song-shame.html
Why is one a story and the other not is it because one is a washed up ex player who has become a joke figure and the other a current player.
would it show just ingrained the IRA love in at Park head is from its lowest supporter to players to officials right up to indeed Dr John Reid who According to George Galloway, Reid is an accomplished singer and guitar player and “taught a whole generation of Labour activists, including yours truly, the entire IRA songbook”.
lets have a look at some of the qoutes from the story in the sun.
“Despite his excuses, anti-sectarian campaigners and politicians insisted all Old Firm heroes have a duty to set an example in Scottish football’s war on bigotry.
Charity Nil by Mouth said: “They must think about what they say and do.”
And outraged Scots Lib Dem leader Willie Rennie said: “Celtic should ban this idiot from Parkhead for life.”
Surley qoutes from Nil by mouth and senior M.Ps would be welcome on this story too if they are indeed serious about stamping out secteranism.
If any Rangers fans were ever in doubt about the media and neutrality, they certainly have learned quickly this weekend. IRA supporting Celtic players and fans are to be ignored and backed, innocent comments from 6 months ago, banning order statistics and as many anti Rangers articles as you shake a stick at, are to be promoted. Scotland and the Scottish people will no longer tolerate the supporters of terror. A certain little group of Celtic fans who thought it was fun to start a smear campaign against the Gers, must be kicking themselves on how much it’s backfired.
RE Tim being a sectarian term. As a Celtic fan I don’t think it is. Just as I don’t think hun is either. Although I can’t speak for all Celtic fans, I am sure that most see the two terms as two sides of the same coin. rfc fans = huns, celtic fans = tims.
As I said I don’t think either are sectarian, but if you guys want to say that hun is, then I am afraid by the same arguments you use to declare hun sectarian, then tim, taig, tarrier or whatever it is some rfc fans like to call Celtic fans would all be sectarian too. Just so you know.
Just so you know, Hun is an equivalent term to Fenian. “Tim” is an equivalent term to “Billy” hence the name of the play. Although perhaps your reply is enlightening as to why we are being subjected to this drivel at a time when Celtic fans are under the microscope for singing sectarian and PIRA songs.
The h@n word is very offensive! My parents had siblings killed by them and I find it very offensive!
The difference is, Celtic fans call themselves Tims, sing songs about being Tims etc.
Rangers fans don’t call themselves Huns.
One of my sons is a Celtic supporter (and Protestant), I refer to him as a Tim. he would never call me a Hun.
The truth is, you MOPEs started all this finger pointing and mock offence and it is now coming back to well and truly bite you on the erse.
P.s Keep up the good work Chris and the pressure.
Is it Serendipity that since you broke the story in your blog that the Sun ran with UEFA charging Celtic over offensive songs.
Then the Sunday Mail running a cheap scandal ridden jerry springeresque story about stokes family life that the Daily mail had already published during the week.
I think the tabloid story about Stokes family says more about the scottish media and how it is run I believe that the stokes family story was surpressed during the week only for it to be approved the go ahead when this more newsworthy and damaging story came up.
A fluff piece if ever I saw one.
Labour MSP James Kelly said: “This is an insufficient response. In any other workplace a person who be out on their ear for this. There needs to be a proper investigation and disciplinary proceedings.”
Liked this “in any other workplace”…
So ‘Tim’ which apparently comes from the name Tim Malloy, but has been adopted by Celtic fans is deemed sectarian, when there is no inclination of religion of politics regarding the name, yet Celtic supporters can happily call Rangers fans Huns which is a derogatory word for German or Protestant. Surely the use of the word Hun is classed as sectarian. Or have I completely mis-understood the whole sectarianism thing and it is only sectarianism if it is done by a Rangers supporter and Celtic fans are exempt from prosecution?
Excellent article Chris.
This whole thing irritates me in the same way as the strange phenomenon in the states whereby an african american can use the term “nigger” (often in music and film) to refer to his fellow race members yet when anyone else uses the term they are rightly slaughtered for it. The argument that it is only offensive when not used by the people it is designed to offend or whom it refers to is hypocritical at best.
If a word is deemed offensive then lets debate why it is offensive. What is the origin of the word and why exactly does it offend. If after reasoned debate it is proved to be an offensive term then NOBODY should use it. Simple as that.
Why the writer of the Herald article chose to omit his or her name speaks volumes. I would be embarrassed too. Maybe the author should have taken a stroll down Bairds bar way and taken a straw poll. Many Celtic fans would probably not be too offended by it.
Unless you were wearing a Rangers top of course.
Another good article mate.
Storms in teacups ? Mountains out of mole hills ? Make up your own mind.
I think we all need to be on our guard of the latest ‘offensive’ developments regardless of your colour or hue !
The focus of all the sectarian / offensive etc etc chants songs etc is always the Old Firm fans. I have personally heard similar if not worse abuse at many other stadia in Scotland, and a good few in England. In particular I have personally witnessed the hatred that exists between Man Utd and Liverpool fans, not a nice thing to experience and not even when they are playing each other!
I don’t see the UK Gov grasping this particular nettle nor Manchester / Liverpool Police reporting hate chants to the UEFA observers at these matches.
Not a justification of being offensive just an example to contrast the current outcry in Scotland
If this Scottish government PC net is to be cast, then they need to cast it wide and far to cover the whole of Scotland and include all sports / jobs / ways of life. They then need to police this and make sure the people making the ‘offensive’ chants / songs etc are arrested and brought to book in an equitable and fair way. To select one section of the community to hassle and harangue smacks of events that took place in Germany during World War 2!
This government has dug a big hole for itself and is continuing to dig. They are desparately looking for a way out but the more they look for one the deeper they dig. The so called Media in this country and also jumping on to the band wagon and trying to claim the moral highground. This is not a new ‘problem’. The new found offensive songs / chants etc have been part and parcel of Scottish society for at least a hundred years so why, all of a sudden, have the media woken up to the fact that people do say things that other people may find offensive ? The childs rhyme of ‘sticks and stones ..’ comes to mind.
I know its a thin line between being offensive and allowing freedom of expression / speech but for God’s sake lets all take a step back and decide if calling someone a Tim / Hun / BIlly / Taig / Fenian is really justifying the so called public outrage and over the top reporting that we are now seeing ?
Where do we draw the line ? Do we need to ban songs relating to every organisation that someone, somewhere may find offensive ? IMO one mans IRA song is another mans Sash, what’s the difference? I’m sure we could all line up a multitude of prople who would find both songs equally ‘offensive’. Do we now need to ban the National Anthem of GB because the third verse might offend people in Scotland ? I don’t think so !
The latest rubbish regarding the Celtic fans and illicit chants is yet another pathetic attempt by the government to get UEFA to take some sort of action against an OF team because the government do not know how else to handle the situation. If the alleged chants were ilicit (illegal) then the Police should have arrested who ever was chanting and jailed them as was the case with the young Rangers goalie, Grant Adams. No such arrests were made but a report sent to UEFA bypassing the club. I suspect this is to create a precedent that the SNP can use to justify whatever rubbish their new Bill will propose. A case of ‘look UEFA finds these songs / chants wrong ergo so do we. Blame UEFA not us !’. Maybe the giverment will use this to create the mythical ‘offensive’ song book, when to date they have singularly failed to do so themselves.
When asked recently the head honcho of Strathclyde’s finest (forgot his name duh!), was asked on TV if he had an explicit ‘songbook’ of ‘offensive’ songs. He replied that there was no such list but that they ‘would know an offensive song when they heard one’. Really thats what he said !
Scary stuff, this means that they (the Police) can make this up as they go along with the full backing of a truly rotten government. What sort of state are we turning into when its down to the whims and prejudices of the individual Policeman who to arrest depending on what he / she personally finds ‘offensive’.
I use the Celtic story as an example. I believe similar reports will soon be made regarding Rangers fans in the near future, if not to UEFA this year, then to the SPL / SFA.
To me the only way forward is for each and every person who feels that their civil liberties are being eroded is to make sure we contact our so called elected representatives in Edinburgh, by email, mail and by attending their surgeries to make sure they understand the depth of feeling and stupidity of the road they are taking us down. Threatening to withdrawing your vote at the next election might help them focus on what we want.
To paraphrase Voltaire ‘I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.’
Pardon the above rant , it’s just that the transparency of the Police and Government really makes me boil with anger. I agree we should not be overtly offensive to anyone but to try and legislate on this to the level of nit picking detail the government is trying to do is the slippery slope to facism and none of us want to go down that road !
Rant over and apologies to all I may have offended with my tirade but I needed to get this off my chest !
Whilst I agree with your sentiment to an extent it’s pretty hard as a Rangers fan to feel sorry for Celtic when it was essentially their fans who started all this “being offended” nonsense. I’m afraid it’s past the point of everyone just saying that is was all a bit silly and let’s just get on with enjoying the football.
Understand your point and I’m not taking sides but if we don’t draw the line on this soon and stop the tit for tattery / ‘ he hit me first’ then how can ever expect it all to end ?
If the OF / all footy fans don’t self police and stop the crap now then we are giving the Govenment carte blanche to impose their new Bill on us – warts and all. The logic will be they cant do it themselves so we will do it for them.
Maybe the answer is for the SPL / SFA to really grow a set and deduct points from teams whose supporters constantly ‘offend’, then again this takes us back round the circle to what is ‘offensive’
Do you have a view on how to move this debate forward ?
Like I said I think it is too late. This bill will go through in my opinion and it is a direct consequence of mock outrage by some Celtic fans and the media. The media are as much to blame. Joe O’Rourke the Official Celtic Supporters Association head has today issued a statement condemning the police for arresting a Celtic fan for singing “Ooh Ah up the Ra”. The Celtic Supporters Trust stated during the debate on the bill in parliament that there was nothing wrong with IRA chants and songs or the use of the word “Hun”. These are the Celtic fans spokespeople. There is not going to be any self policing by them. They will be dragged kicking and screaming by UEFA to stop their glorification of terrorists whilst totally failing to understand that you can celebrate being Irish without any reference to terrorists.
Also it would take a huge dose of turning the other cheek for the Rangers fans to forget how these same Celtic reps twisted the knife when the shoe was on the other foot. Their mock indignation about being held to the same standard does not help them.
I think it’s time to sit back with some popcorn and watch the show. It will probably be to the detriment of the game in terms of atmosphere but perhaps wiser heads than me can see a positive outcome to making fans scared to utter anything at a match.
Excellent blog.
How about youse rangers fans can have the good media publicity and we can have all those dodgy penalties and decisons youse get?;)
Glad you acknowledge the ridiculously biased media coverage we’ve been getting. As for penalties – maybe you should check the stats for last year when Celtic set a record for penalties received in British football. Or indeed this year where they are allowed the most fouls per booking of any club in Scotland.